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 A. He wanted to see that they're going to come out publicly and commit to reform, investigate the past, et cetera.

According to Ambassador Taylor, on September 8, Ambassador Sondland relayed to Ambassador Taylor that he had told President Zelensky and Yermak that if President Zelensky "did not clear things up in public, we would be at a stalemate." Ambassador Taylor interpreted Ambassador Sondland's use of "stalemate" to mean that there would be no security assistance to Ukraine. Ambassador Taylor recounted that Ambassador Sondland said that President Trump is a businessman and businessmen ask for something before "signing a check." Ambassador Taylor testified that he understood that "signing a check" related to security assistance. Ambassador Sondland did not recall the conversation with Ambassador Taylor and denied making a statement about President Trump seeking something for signing a check to Ukraine He testified:

Q. So you hadn't—did you ever, in the course of this, ever make a statement to the effect of, you know, we're cutting a big check to the Ukraine, you know, what should we get for his?

A. That's not something I would have said. I don't remember that at all.

Q. Okay. So you've never made a statement relating the aid to conditions that the Ukrainians ought to comply with?

A. I don't remember that, no.

Q. But if someone suggested that you made that statement, that would be out of your own character, you're saying?

A. Yes.

Although Ambassador Sondland's statements imply that the President personally sought a conditionality on the security assistance, other witnesses testified that Ambassador Sondland had a habit of exaggerating his interactions with President Trump. Ambassador Sondland himself acknowledged that he only spoke with the President five or six times, one of which was a Christmas greeting. It is not readily apparent that Ambassador Sondland was speaking on behalf of President Trump in this context. 59