Index talk:Life and Select Literary Remains of Sam Houston of Texas (1884).djvu

Sorting out some style guidelines, and other issues. Usually, I just come along later and proof or validate. So, please feel free to offer any ideas.

Mrs. Houston's name
. Her full maiden name was Margaret Moffette Lea. As Houston's wife, she often signed her letters "Margaret M." and was referred to by others as "Margaret M. Houston". In her lifetime, which is when this book was written, it wasn't necessarily the norm for a married woman to use her maiden name as a middle name. Since the 20th century she has been referred to in both historical records and published works as Margaret Lea Houston, and her Wikipedia article went with that per WP MIDDLE NAMES. But the book we are editing here correctly used (for its time) the middle initial of "M." Maile66 (talk) 13:10, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Miscellaneous formatting

 * a.m. and p.m. Template:Small-caps
 * Example
 * Example

Chapter headings - first page

 * Remember that the chapter header -- eg. "Chapter I." -- does not go in the "header" section of the transcription. It goes in the regular part with the page text. The stuff in the "header" section does not get transcluded to the main namespace.


 * Chapter headings - first page
 * Template:Center
 * Template:Larger → x-larger


 * Subheadings - first page - directly below the main header
 * Template:Small-caps
 * Template:Hanging indent
 * Example
 * Template:Center if subheading is short enough for only one line
 * Example


 * First word of first paragraph (or first two words, if the first word is a single letter such as "A")
 * dropinitial for a big letter that drops below the line, usually the first letter
 * Template:Small-caps


 * Page number centered at bottom

Pages other than chapter first page

 * Template:RunningHeader


 * Italics header
 * Running header example: book title
 * RH header example: chapter


 * Template:Hyphenated word start
 * Template:Hyphenated word end

Transclusion of TOC

 * Help requested on this. I have transcluded just one page of the TOC.  It's very lengthy, and the first of 4 pages of VOL I TOC.  VOL II TOC is on pp. 271-272.  Anyone who knows how to condense all this into something presentable on the Index, please do so, or make suggestions here. Maile66 (talk) 23:29, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * - See this old archived discussion for what to do with an overly detailed TOC. Also the page number should be in the "footer" section so that it doesn't get transcluded. Mukkakukaku (talk) 23:42, 24 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks. I'll look into what you linked.  It's all a learning curve here. Maile66 (talk) 00:49, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Pg 8 TOC
There are two Tables of Contents, one for Vol I and one for Vol II.


 * Vol I, pp 5-8.
 * p 8 Two portraits are mentioned under "List of Illustrations": "Youthful Portrait, Frontpiece, Vol. I." "Portrait in Age, Frontispiece, Vol. II." There is only one portrait in the upload, and only one portrait in the original book on archive.org (which is a pretty good copy). My guess is that when they combined two volumes into one copy, they eliminated the second image. At least, as far as any portrait in a Frontpiece, and that's the one for FP Vol I.   Whether it's youthful or old age was probably subjective to author Wm. Carey Crane. Several versions of the image are on Commons, and dates vary on the sources.  He doesn't look really young.  File:Sam Houston in 1863.png is also on Commons.  1863 is the year Houston died (age 70), and he looks pretty elderly in that one. Maile66 (talk) 21:21, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Page numbering
I've reverted the page numbering I'd added in good faith, because someone on my user talk page commented that the format used might not have been the "standard" one.

So can the other contributors here please provide in detail what numbering standard is being used for this Index.ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 09:57, 28 July 2016 (UTC)


 * And I've reverted back to what you originally had, except for the Progress status. I'm the one who has to check that all pages are here, and I had no problem with what you did.  I'm too new at this to know what others object to on what you did, but at least you got all the page numbers matching with the scan (I think). Maile66 (talk) 12:27, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
 * If you think it's good to progress. Feel free. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 12:46, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

All pages accounted for - ready for proofing
I've checked each and every scanned page. It matches the source, no missing pages. Maile66 (talk) 23:52, 28 July 2016 (UTC)


 * Nice progress!
 * When you've checked the text and formatting on a page, you can mark it "proofread." You obviously did a lot of work on Page:Life and Select Literary Remains of Sam Houston of Texas (1884).djvu/247 and many other pages. They may have some minor errors, but if you've checked them carefully, there's no reason you can't marked them as "proofread."
 * By the way, I'm the person who bugged ShakespeareFan00 about editing the Index file you're working on. As long as you're actively working on this, I consider it your project. You're welcome to invite others to participate, but if others drop in and edit what you're doing without checking in with you first, they can seriously mess up what you're trying to do here. Not that ShakespeareFan seriously messed up what you're doing... I think ShakespeareFan just jumped the gun, so to speak. There's a tag available that lets other editors know that you're working on this -- it's Template:Under construction.
 * Happy editing! Outlier59 (talk) 00:40, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Help requested
Two things I have not figured out on formatting. I've been skipping around, but really have not seen these before p 535
 * The long blank line deliberately blanking out someone's name (at least, that's what I think it's for)
 * The dotted lines that separates paragraphs

I mostly winged it on instinct. But if there is a template or some preferred style of handling this, please advise. Maile66 (talk) 22:47, 31 July 2016 (UTC)


 * p 535, first page where I encountered blanking out a name
 * p 540, first page where I encountered the dotted dividing line


 * Try for long dash lines. That looks like  or  or  or other lengths you set.
 * Try for many dots. That looks like, depending on the number of dots you set.
 * Don't forget to use two single quote marks for italics.
 * Don't forget to remove the space between the text and the m-dash.
 * Hope you're having fun! :) Outlier59 (talk) 00:51, 1 August 2016 (UTC)


 * p.s. I did a bit of editing on Page:Life and Select Literary Remains of Sam Houston of Texas (1884).djvu/7. One line is actually a pencil line, probably added by a librarian.
 * Do you know how to add OCR clean up Page Tool to your Wikisource side-bar? If not, see User talk:BethNaught Cleaning up spaces and paragraph breaks when proofing. Outlier59 (talk) 01:11, 1 August 2016 (UTC)


 * An additional question - pp 662-672 looks to me like it's going to have to be all tables. Can you point me to something similar I can use as a guide?
 * The OCR clean up, which I did not know about, is terrific!
 * Thank you for the advice, and for the editing that helped me learn formatting methods. I went back over what I had marked as proofed and changed pages back to "Not proofread" status on the ones I need to reformat letters within block quotes.  There are big chunks in Vol II that are mostly letters.  Much of the "Indian Talks" ; and, of course, the entirety of "Letters and Documents". Maile66 (talk) 14:23, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the advice, and for the editing that helped me learn formatting methods. I went back over what I had marked as proofed and changed pages back to "Not proofread" status on the ones I need to reformat letters within block quotes.  There are big chunks in Vol II that are mostly letters.  Much of the "Indian Talks" ; and, of course, the entirety of "Letters and Documents". Maile66 (talk) 14:23, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

<--

Glad you like OCR clean up! :) It certainly makes things easier.

I'm not sure what to suggest about pp 662-672. Different editors seem to take various approaches. There seems to be a trend towards moving away from using tables for formatting. You'll find lots of editors use them -- or tags that use them (such as TOC variants). See this example. So I can't give you guidance about this. My preference is to try to keep the page format as simple as possible so that later editors aren't spending all their time trying to figure out the formatting. sometimes works for simple indents; colons also sometimes work. This is something you might want to bring up at the Scriptorium. It'll proabably produce a lively discussion! From that, you decide.

Keep in mind that the formatting here does not have to exactly match the printed version. Printed pages have certain widths and heights, and also a chosen font. Modern browsers and ebooks and viewing screens and fonts come in many configurations. Page scans replicate a printed page. What you want here is the essense of the page presentation in a form for electronic viewing on various screen dimensions and sizes, so it's not always simple. We all just do what we can. Chances are good that what you're seeing on your screen when you look at this pages isn't exactly the same as what I'm seeing on my screen. That's modern technology for you!! Outlier59 (talk) 00:15, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

P. 374 blank
In the numbering here, it goes 373, blank, 375. I checked the original, and that's exactly how the original is. Although not numbered in the original, the page between 373 and 375 is a blank. Maile66 (talk)

Help requested regarding block quotes
I'm seriously getting confused here. I think I was doing OK with what to block quote, until I got to Houston's speeches. Because the initial speeches had Houston quoting somebody else about every other paragraph, such as Page 378, I didn't do block quotes unless it was a full letter from someone else. Some places in some of Houston's speeches are so littered with quotes that there would be more block quotes than anything else. And that's the way I went with this part of Proofing. Until I got to 591, 592, 593. I'm not even sure I can tell anymore what should be block quotes in his speeches and what shouldn't. And, in fact, I'm no longer certain if it's Houston citing the quote, or it's Houston speaking before a government body where another speaker is replying to Houston and therein throwing some quotes around. Maile66 (talk) 14:11, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Too late now. I went with my instinct and hoped for the best.  Maile66 (talk) 00:33, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Braces example
Template:Brace2


 * p 362
 * Page:Life and Select Literary Remains of Sam Houston of Texas (1884).djvu/567
 * Page:Life and Select Literary Remains of Sam Houston of Texas (1884).djvu/680